Very rough notes for our DIY-installed living room UFH

Questions to get answered:

  1. Programmable room thermostats - can I use a Conrad FS20 system with swivel nut (M 30x1.5)  3/4” bsp
  2. Will we still be able to use floor stat?
  3. remove bespoke design?
  4. delivery cost & time?

\ Current plan:

  • Buy the 16mm pipe, pump, manifold from UFH Trade Direct and the thermoboard from Wavin
  • Buy the pipe, pump, manifold, and aluminium heat spreaders from UFH Trade Direct.  Cut the alu as I describe on GBF  The alu sheets are £4.19 for 0.39m2 so 25m2 = £272 (just for the alu.   25m2 of 75mm Celotex would be a further ~£110).  This compares to £700 for just the ThermoBoard from Wavin.  The pipe, pump, manifold etc kit is about a further £409.  So pipe, manifold, alu, Celotex = £791.  Alternatively: UFHtradDirect(pipe, manifold etc) +  Wavin(ThermoBoard) = £1109  (£318 difference)
  • YBS Insulation’s SuperFloor foil (comes with pipes for UFH pipe).  Ask if I can buy 25m2 instead of 50m2.  Perhaps better performing but slightly more timeconsuming to fit is ThermoBoard, as recommended on GBF  Quote as of 5/8/10 is £1495 excl VAT
  • Pump, manifold and pipe from UFH1 (ask about using SuperFloor and about using FS20 system and deal with rugs)

\ \ \

Foil versus pipe-in-plate versus screed

  • Foil should be silent.  Plates can make a noise
  • Foil will be faster to install
  • Foil will not spread the heat well (but some are sceptical about how well 1mm steel sheet spreads the heat)
  • Screed takes a while to heat up but spreads the heat more effectively and acts as a thermal mass

\ \

installation notes

  • Install floorboards with screws to minimise noise
  • Bring SuperFloor foil up behind the skirting boards

\ \

carpets & rugs

  • general advice is: carpets are a bad idea.  The Solid Wood Flooring website suggests it can seriously damage floor boards.  I called them and they were less worried - they said it’s rare for the boards to delaminate.  Run the UFH as cold as possible.  When first run, start at 19 degrees can increase by a degree per day.

\ \

FS20 kit:

  • FHEM to control (open source software)
  • On the Conrad site you need:
    • FHT80B Actuator & Thermostat Kits: 750407 - 89 (3)
    • Actuator: 570056 - 89 (2) (doesn’t work with UFH)
    • FHT 8W Boiler Control: 560098 - 89 (1)
    • FHZ1300 PC Interface: 620371 - 89 (1)

\ \

the RADIO-HEATING THERMOSTAT FHT 8 Set (570055 - 89 £44.51) or the RADIO HEATING THERMOSTAT FHT 8-II Set (560606 - 89 £39.99) from conrad both have only receivers on the thermostats so you dont get any control over them\ \ latest thoughts are outlined on the automated home forum by me: http://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=12992&postcount=181\ \ I’ve ask Conrad UK if the switch can be controlled by the thermostat - 27/8/10\ \ here’s a pipe thermostat for £8\ \ Apparently the Conrad / ELV actuators cannot be used on UFH systems (too large?)\ \ Apparently EQ-3 make the components for Conrad and ELV and HomeHeat.  It looks like the thermostat for controlling switches is a different model to the normal FH80b.  Conrad don’t sell the “Wireless thermostat FS20 STR eQ-613-70”, which is what I want I think.  ELV do sell it.  But I’m not sure if it’ll work with the boiler control and/or the PC controller.  I’ve asked:\ \ I have asked EQ-3 (the manufacturers of the Conrad and ELV branded products, apparently):

\

“Dear EQ-3,

\

Can the “Wireless thermostat FS20 STR eQ-613-70” communicate with the “FHT8W Boiler Control” and/or the “FHZ 1XXX PC system”?

\

I am installing wet underfloor heating. I would like to use the “Wireless thermostat FS20 STR eQ-613-70” to control an “AS1 Switch” connected to our underfloor heating’s pump and motorised zone valve.  But I also want the “Wireless thermostat FS20 STR” to control our gas boiler via the “FHT8W Boiler Control” and I want to be able to control and monitor the entire FS20 system using my PC via the “FHZ 1XXX PC system”.

\

Many thanks,

Daniel”

\

i need the Wilo Pico 25/1-6-130 or the Wilo-Smart 25/6-130 pump\ \ Current thoughts:

  • Install system with no controls but with cable running to understairs to maximise options
  • buy 230v actuator from UFH Trade Direct (although: how does it actually work?)
  • Test the system with the mixing valve turned down: does this ensure the floor temp never excedes 27 degrees C???
    • if we don’t need electronic control to keep floor temp <=27 then just buy the thermostat and wall switch from ELV (ask if it’ll work with the Conrad PC controller and boiler control and AS1 switch)  (I’ve writted to ELV to ask

\

Dear ELV,

\

Please may I ask 3 questions about product 68-838-22 “FS20 STR wireless room thermostat set 1: Thermostat, a wireless switch socket, batteries”

\

1) Will the “STR wireless room thermostat” work with the “FS20 SA radio wall switch (Item no.: 68-470-12)” instead of the switch socket?  I assume so.

\

2) Will your “STR wireless room thermostat” work with the “Conrad FHT8W boiler control” and/or the “Conrad FHZ 1300 Radio Home Centre PC”?

\

3) Can you deliver to the UK?

\

Many thanks,

Jack Kelly

\

ARG!  The STR wont work with either the boiler control or the pc connector (but is that because the ELV kit wont work with Conrad’s?  wait to hear back from conrad international.

    • if we do need electronic control then we need to communicate that floor temp to the FS20 system so it doesn’t call for heat from the boiler when the floor temp >27.

\ \

Conrad International sell lots of good stuff {#conrad-international-sell-lots-of-good-stuff dir=”ltr”}

Dear Conrad International,\ \ Please may I ask some techincal questions about the “Radio heating thermostat FS20 8-II Set (Product ID: 620423)”\ \ I would like to use this to control the pump and actuators on my wet underfloor heating system.\ \ Will the “Radio heating thermostat FS20 8-II Set (Product ID: 620423)” work with the “HEAT RELAYS FHT 8W (Product ID: 560098)”?\ \ Also, can I use the “FHZ 1300 Radio Home Centre PC (Product ID: 620371)” to control and monitor the “Radio heating thermostat FS20 8-II Set (Product ID: 620423)”?\ \ Many thanks,\ Jack

\ \

Alternatives {#alternatives dir=”ltr”}

  • HomeMatic - similar to the FS20 system but uses a Central Control Unit, costing about 200 euros, which includes a web system.  A homematic system (no software) with CCU, 2xroom thermostats, 1x4-gang switch = 427 euros from contronics - also, does the HomeMatic system definitely talk to the boiler?
  • Heatmiser - wireless control of UFH and rads.  But the “Netmonitor+” is £415!
  • Maybe I can use the following and use FHEM to interface the FHT80B with the switch?
    • FS20 FHT80B-II (but will this work without an actuator?)
    • AS1 switch (actually, get the 4-channel one)
    • FHT 8W Boiler Control: 560098 - 89 (1)
    • FHZ1300 PC Interface: 620371 - 89 (1)
    • of course, one big problem with this solution is that it’ll be complex for future owners of the house.  Although perhaps this needn’t be too problematic because we could take the wireless kit with us.  Also, doing this might be good given that I’m now an official geek

\ \ \ if I give up on internet control then HeatMiser do some good wireless thermostats and some wired ones with external sensors http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/search.php?search_query=RC1-WTS&x=0&y=0